The New Great Grandpa Record Gives Annie Truscott Goosebumps

Al Menne is a singer-songwriter who fronts the Seattle band Great Grandpa; Annie Truscott is the bassist for the Seattle band Chastity Belt. The new Great Grandpa record, Patience, Moonbeam, came out earlier this spring on Run For Cover, so to celebrate, the two friends got together to catch up.
—Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music 

Al Menne: We’re both nervous to be surveilled. [Laughs.]

Annie Truscott: [Laughs.] It’s true. 

Al: How are you doing? 

Annie: I’m OK. I am not bad, but I’m not great. 

Al: Sleepy.

Annie: Sleepy. I’m a little sleepy. I’m a little worn down by the world at large. 

Al: It’s definitely fucked, to say the least. 

Annie: Just kind of putting one foot in front of the other at the moment, and getting through the days. I had an acupuncture appointment the other day and one of the intake questions was, “How are your emotions?” And I think I described it as feeling a little emotionally constipated. Because if I think too hard about how I’m actually feeling, I’ll go down a deep, deep hole, and I don’t know if I’m ready to go there. But I also should probably release something at some point. 

Al: Yeah, I feel that. I was talking to somebody the other day about family members being Trump supporters, and I found myself really over-rationalizing why they are supporting this fascist regime, like, “Well, you know, they’re going off of the news that they’re being fed and we’re all in an echo chamber of our own making…” And the guy I was talking to, who is this cis guy, was like, “I don’t think that there will ever be a good enough reason for people to be supporting what is being done to minorities and trans people. You don’t really need to rationalize it.” I was like, Damn. I realized that I’ve been forcing myself to be like, It’s not their fault that whatever… Because if I stop to think about it and actually let myself feel mad about it, then I just won’t be able to have a relationship with those people. Which I think a lot of people have been cutting ties with family members or friends or whoever because of politics — for good reason — in the last 10 years. But there’s some things that are just more complicated than that. 

Annie: Yeah. How have you been navigating your relationships with those family members? I mean, it sounds like you’re coming from a lot of understanding and patience and kindness.

Al: [Laughs.]

Annie: Which, not surprising, knowing you. 

Al: Thank you. I feel like… kind of what I said a second ago, just over-rationalizing. Really trying to take away blame in the situation. Because when you think about what they’re supporting, the rights of people that they’re voting against — ooh, yeah, it feels really bad to think about that. So I think keeping the relationships at surface level, and trying to plant seeds if any politics come up, or things like grocery prices. Stick to neutral topics. What about you? Do you have to navigate that at all? 

Annie: Honestly, not so much. My immediate family members are definitely not in line with what’s happening politically, which makes for an easier time for sure. There’s still things to navigate, but not anything of that level, luckily.

Al: Being a trans person with an evolving identity, definitely not always easy to navigate. [Laughs.]

Annie: [Laughs.] It’s like, I don’t even totally understand what’s happening to myself, so trying to answer my mom’s questions… Actually, she’s been really sweet and hasn’t asked too many invasive or hard questions. But gender’s hard to explain. It’s hard to talk about sometimes. It’s everything and nothing. 

Al: Yeah, trying to find the right words to explain to somebody who probably hasn’t felt any type of dysphoria in their life, or hasn’t maybe stopped to think about their gender in that way — as you are yourself figuring out how you feel about your gender, you’re literally figuring it out as you go 

Annie: In real time. 

Al: Yeah, definitely. It’s pretty tough. I guess, speaking of gender — how would you describe your gender?

Annie: [Laughs.] 

Al: [Laughs.] If you had to put a few words to it these days. And how has your gender evolved since your realizing of your transness? 

Annie: Those are good questions. I think back a lot to when I was little — there was one year, I think I was probably four, and everyone was supposed to dress up for Halloween. My parents got me this beautiful velvet blue gown, and I think I put it on a few nights before, and I was like, “Well, this is cool. Whatever.” I took it off, didn’t think about it too hard. And then when Halloween came along, I just absolutely refused [to wear it]. And my mom was like, “OK, you could be something else. What do you want to wear?” And I was like, “Actually, I’m nothing. I’m just Annie.” [Laughs.] And I feel like that’s my gender. 

Al: Yep.

Annie: Getting top surgery was huge, and was something that I wanted since I was a teen in some form. I thought, OK, that’s my end marker. That’s the end of my gender care. Once I have top surgery, I am so set. And I think it was once that happened and I felt so comfortable in my body for the first time, I was like, How could I feel more comfortable in my body, though? There was something kind of knocking at the back of my head. And then I think back to moments of when I was little, and skateboarding in my garage with my top off, and I was just a little guy. And — I mean, this is kind of fucked up because of the patriarchy — but my dad used to work in a pretty fancy high-rise building, and I remember visiting one time when I was really little, and I said to my whole family, “When I grow up, I want to be a boy because I want to work where daddy works.” [Laughs.] 

Al: [Laughs.] Aw.

Annie: There was these hints that something was a little different from a young age, and I think I just ignored a lot of that for a really long time. 

Al: That’s so real. 

Annie: Lots of shame and fear and, honestly, internalized transphobia that I’m still working through every day. 

Al: I’m with you. 

Annie: I feel like I went down a little hole last night thinking about it. I have a deep addiction to Instagram, which I’m also working on. 

Al: That’s me and TikTok. 

Annie: I’m so grateful for all of the trans masc people that I see and, I’m not going to say “idolize,” but just learn from and get encouraged by and confidence from. But at the same time, I had this moment last night where I was like, I’m almost 35, I started taking T when I was 33, and I’m comparing myself to these 25 year old guys. I was like, I gotta get out of here. 

Al: Who have probably been on T for a bit longer. 

Annie: Yeah, totally. And I’m still at a point where I identify as non-binary. When I was asked what my goals are with T the other week — again at my acupuncture appointment, they’re really trying to pull it out of me there [laughs] — I was like, “I don’t know. I’m just on a journey. And I feel like I haven’t quite met the person [I want to be] yet.” So that’s where I’m at: gender freak. 

Al: Gender freak!

Annie: Queer AF, if you will. [Laughs.]

Al: [Laughs.] That is so relatable. I mean, I think the further on I’ve gone in my journey being on testosterone — it’ll be two years in June of being on a high dose consistently — because you know me, I’ve started and stopped.

Annie: Dipped some toes in.

Al: I’ve dipped every single toe into the pool at some point. But yeah, I feel like there’s so many anxieties before going on T about the unknown, of like, Well, I want a deeper voice, but I don’t know how I feel about body hair, bottom growth, or whatever. But I feel like as I’ve gone along and have been faced with the changes that I was really anxious about getting, I’ve been like, Oh, actually this kind of rocks. The deeper I’ve dived into my T journey, the more I’ve been like, Wait, actually, I think I’m uncovering more as I go. I’m getting closer to what I want. And for me, that might mean being on T for my whole life. Which, cool. 

Annie: Cool. 

Al: I think if I thought about that two years ago, it would have stressed me out so much. So, taking it one day at a time feels appropriate. But also, I think at this point in my gender journey, I can actually visualize living my life 20 years from now. And if that means being on T 20 years from now still, that’s awesome. 

I really wanted to do this Talkhouse interview with you specifically because you’re my best friend, and also it just feels like such a privilege to get to talk with other trans people — I mean, to talk with any trans person, but somebody who’s had a very similar journey. 

Annie: Yes. 

Al: And that I just feel a deep connection with on a community, gender basis. 

Annie: Soul level.

Al: Yes, on a soul level. But also, I think now more than ever, we need to have more queer media, specifically trans people being able to talk about their experiences. Because being able to look at Reddit and find other trans people having the same thoughts and feelings that I was having before really coming out to myself as trans was so important. Is there a piece of queer media that you feel opened that up for you? 

Annie: I remember in 2021, I was on a road trip visiting some friends in Portland — and I think this was before I even came out as non-binary, or had just thought for the first time, Oh, maybe I’m non-binary. And my friend lent me their copy of Cyrus Dunham’s book, A Year Without a Name. 

Al: I still haven’t read that. 

Annie: I was thinking about it earlier today and how I need to reread it, because anytime I read a book, it’s in one ear, out the other — or in one eye, out the other, I guess. [Laughs.] But that book, I remember reading it in my one of my best friend’s backyards in the sun and just being like, Oh, fuck. It slowly opened a little bit of the door that maybe the knocking was on for a while. It talked about his experience of coming out and identity, and I think that was the first book I had read about that, at least from a trans masc perspective. I started school a couple months after that, and I remember introducing myself at orientation, and not everyone was giving their pronouns, but a couple other people did, and I was like, I’m gonna do it. And I was like, “I’m Annie and I’m she/they.” [Laughs.] My heart was pounding. To me, it was so huge to even acknowledge that little whisper of transness that had been living inside of me for forever.

Al: Yeah. And I think when you and I met, and started connecting and actually talking, at the time you were dipping your toe into she/they territory. And I was like, Alright. [Laughs.] You know, when one of your friends comes out with a new pronoun and you’re like, This is not the last step. I see the snowball starting to roll… 

Annie: [Laughs.] Fully rolling. And even earlier than this, I remember listening to a podcast called Gender Reveal — the host interviews only trans people or trans non-binary people — and just hearing other trans people’s stories… Once you get a glimpse in other people’s stories, for me, it felt like seeing a part of myself for the first time. And I felt that way even meeting you, and talking to you about being trans. For the first time, I really felt like I saw myself in another person, and I’m so grateful for that. I think that’s another reason I need to get off Instagram and dive deep into my trans IRL friendships. Because it’s not reciprocal. You see these people and it’s like, OK, cool fashion style inspo. Great. Cool workout. OK. But there’s no connection. 

Al: Yes. And with any social media, it’s so easy to romanticize somebody else’s experience. This doesn’t really happen to me as much recently, but every now and then I do catch myself feeling insecure about my transition, and like, Why does this guy who’s been on T for a year have a full-on beard? [Laughs.] But that’s so real. I felt the same thing with you — it’s like a mirror, but so much more than that and so much deeper. And I think if not for our friendship and Nick [Levine], my partner, being so deeply ingrained in my life and helping me figure out my queerness and transness, I don’t know that I would have taken the leap into getting top surgery. 

Annie: Totally.

Al: Having that support system is so huge. 

Annie: Yeah. Shout out to our incredibly supportive partners. I’ve been with my partner for seven-and-a-half years, and she’s seen me through so many different stages of my life. Like, pretty newly sober, going through school, doing so many different things. I can’t totally remember when I told her about wanting to try using they/them pronouns, but she did it immediately and it wasn’t even a question in her mind. I just feel so incredibly grateful, because I think there was a lot of fear in a formerly… I mean, honestly, I never felt that comfortable with the word “lesbian,” but I guess that’s what our relationship was at one point — a very lesbian relationship. I was really nervous because I was like, OK, well, if my partner’s a lesbian, how will she be attracted to me, someone who’s not a woman? And the coolest part is that I feel like her attraction has only grown. 

Al: Probably because you’re feeling so much more yourself. 

Annie: Yes, 100%.

Al: That’s so sweet. 

Annie: She’s constantly feeling my muscle. 

Al: Gassing you up. 

Annie: And it’s real. It’s not just hype. I can feel a deeper connection that we have because I’m being more honest about who I am. And I think it’s also opened up her world of the kind of people she’s attracted to. Oh, that’s something I’m curious about too. How has your attraction to people, or your sexuality even, changed since getting on T or coming out as trans?

Al: Pre-T, pre-op, I remember so often having this… it felt like an anchor tied around me that was saying, You won’t find somebody to love you. It’ll be so hard for somebody to find you attractive if you do these things. And kind of a similar thing, I feel like my partner Nick’s attraction to me has also only magnified. And our connection — it’s always been really solid, but I feel like being more honest with myself and feeling less fatigued and depressed and mentally fucked up by dysphoria, I’m able to let a deeper connection happen. Also, there just comes the connecting with somebody over bonding over healing after surgery, or the care that comes with supporting somebody through these changes. It’s so beautiful, and there’s no parallel to that type of connection and deep bonding. Makes me wanna cry.

Annie: Same — except I can’t anymore. [Laughs.]

Al: I know, I feel like I used to cry, like, every other day.

Annie. Same. Over anything.

Al: Over an-y-thing. Obviously, we process our emotions differently now being on T — not to speak for you, but we’ve talked about this. Do you feel like it’s different? 

Annie: I think this also has to do with just fewer hormonal dips, with estrogen and progesterone. My hormones are definitely just pretty flatline now, and I think there’s something really stabilizing about that. But I also think sometimes that’s where my emotional constipation comes from. I don’t have the same catharsis of just a full cry session release. And I like hate to be that stereotype of, “people on T can’t cry.” But for me—

Al: It’s just so real. 

Annie: It’s really real. And I did cry a couple weeks ago — which is crazy even just saying that. It’s like, Oh, god, a couple weeks, it was forever ago. But my body definitely shows its emotion in other ways. Like, anytime I hear something that I like, I get chills. Or anytime I see something nice, I get chills. 

Al: You’re the king of getting goosebumps. 

Annie: In fact — just to bring it back to your album — my partner and I were driving to Encinitas the other day listening to your album and I literally got chills, like, five times. 

Al: It makes me feel so good to know that I can send you my music, and if I get a photo of your arm with goosebumps on it, I know it’s a thumbs up. [Laughs.] 

I feel like I’ve gotten really lucky that, as I’ve kind of come out in this new album cycle, everyone’s been so supportive. But just being out in public in general feels very… you never know what you’re going to get hit with. 

Annie: I know. How was being on the road?

Al: It was…

Annie: How were the bathrooms? [Laughs.] 

Al: [Laughs.] I mean, I still am at a place where I have to be very aware of my surroundings and sort of take it case-by-case on which bathroom I think is safe to use. If there’s a family or a unisex bathroom available, you know I’m in there. That’s for me. I think the scariest place to choose a bathroom is a rural area where a rest stop, like capital-R Rest Stop, is the place where we can take a break. That’s always the place where I feel like if I use the women’s bathroom, I’m getting dirty looks — and it’s always by somebody that I feel like, Judging by the look in your eyes, you have it in you to do hate crime. 

Annie: [Laughs.]

Al: [Laughs.] Luckily, I haven’t encountered anything more than dirty looks, or somebody being like, “Is this the men’s or the women’s?” And stepping out to double check. Which, honestly, that’s kind of…

Annie: It’s kind of powerful. 

Al: It’s sort of affirming. We did an East Coast run in January right after the inauguration, right as executive orders were being put in place, and I feel like it didn’t matter what my surroundings were. Anywhere I was, I felt deep despair, not even just for myself, but the community as a whole. Especially trans women — no matter how terrifying the political realities and being a trans person in the world feels, I feel like I do still have privilege where, at the end of the day, I don’t think I’m the most vulnerable of our community. 

Annie: No, for sure. 

Al: As a white person in the queer community, too, I don’t have the intersections of what a lot of other trans people have to deal with on a daily basis. 

Annie: I think about that too. 

Al: I just hope that people open their eyes and stick up for the vulnerable people. 

Going back to coming out and transitioning in front of people’s eyes, in front of an audience — there’s nothing more powerful than a cis guy coming to you and being like, “What is happening in the world is fucked up, and I want you to know that I would kill for you and have your back.” I can count three-to-five cis guys in my life who, since things have been going the way that they’re going, have come to me and said those exact words. And it feels good. Puts a little pep in my step. [Laughs.] 

I think I told you that when I came out as trans to my family, I sent an email like, “These are my pronouns. I’m getting top surgery. Blah blah blah.” My uncle — I think it just didn’t make its way to him for like a little while. So a few months after I had sent this email, he texted me and was like, “I just want you to know, I read the email. I love you so much. I don’t care if my sister has two boys and a girl or three boys — however you identify is cool by me. And if anybody has a problem with that, I’m throwing hands.” It really escalated. Like, “I mean it. If anybody does anything to you, I would kill them.” [Laughs.] I’ve never felt more protected in my life. 

Annie: Honestly, incredible. 

Al: Everybody needs three-to-five cis guys in their life to be willing to throw hands. 

Annie: [Laughs.] To lay down before you.

Al: Yes. I’m not a cis guy, but I would definitely protect you. 

Annie: Hell yeah. Ditto. 

(Photo Credit: left, Rachel Bennett; right, Eleanor Petry)