Adrian Sherwood built up a vast catalogue of music through the 1980s via his productions for his own On-U Sound label, which emerged from a fertile post-punk scene that was embracing Jamaican rhythms. In his capacity as a DJ and live sound engineer/dub controller, he connected with the likes of The Clash, The Slits, and The Pop Group. He’s gone onto work with everyone from Lee Perry to Blur.
Adrian Sherwood is a legendary record producer, DJ, and dub pioneer; Alex White is a saxophonist/multi-instrumentalist who plays in Fat White Family and Primal Scream. Alex plays on Adrian’s new solo record, The Collapse of Everything, which is out tomorrow on Adrian’s label On-U Sound. To celebrate, the two took a break from their recording session for a quick chat about it.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music
Adrian Sherwood: I think we met [through] Andrew Innes from Primal Scream, wasn’t it?
Alex White: Yeah, I moved down here to Ramsgate, and we’ve got another friend, Warren [Mansfield], from the band Meatraffle and SCUD FM and other projects, and he was saying, “Oh, you gotta meet Adrian.”
Adrian: Is that what he said to you? He’s a good friend.
Alex: Yeah, he’s a lovely, lovely bloke. Makes amazing music as well.
Adrian: Yeah, Warren’s involved with Fat White Family as well, isn’t he?
Alex: He’s played a few times. He comes with his trumpet and his dub siren. I think he actually blew the PA at Wide Awake up with his dub siren and his trumpets. There was no sound check or anything…
Adrian: Yeah, I could imagine Warren doing that. So I think that when we met, Innes said to me, [in a Scottish accent,] “I got this young sax player. He’s great, you should meet him.” So I phoned you up and I said, “Bring your sax.” I think you did a session within 10 minutes of meeting. And then since then we’ve been…
Alex: Just sort of doing little things ever since. We did the Panda Bear and Sonic Boom remix album.
Adrian: Really proud of that album. Reset In Dub.
Alex: And then there was something for James Murphy, didn’t we? Some remix?
Adrian: I think we did. For Shit Robot as well.
Alex: Yeah.
Adrian: And then we we embarked on what has become my first solo album in 13 years.
Alex: The Collapse of Everything.
Adrian: Hopefully not everything. There is optimistic bits on there. Some of the tracks are optimistic.
Alex: That’s great. I love what you’ve done with it, man. It’s really moody. A lot of it’s spooky and psychedelic.
Adrian: Well, from my experience, obviously living off one band, as you know, is impossible. Unless you’re hit-oriented. And then you just might end up hating everybody you work with and everything you do. So I think with yourself, it’s finding that balance between having your own thing — which eventually you will have. It will be the Alex White Quartet, or some name. Your own version of Ezra Collective, or something where you piece together a unit for yourself. And then you’ll still have to flex what you’ve got — work with me, work with the Scream, work with the Fat Whites, and everybody else.
Alex: Yeah, yeah. It’s good stuff. Irons in the fire, man. I’m loving what’s going on. Josh Caffé — we’ve this made this sort of techno, hypersexual—
Adrian: “Hypersexual”? What is that?
Alex: Well, I’ll let your imagination do the work. I’ll play you the album. It’s with Quinn [Whalley] from Paranoid London.
Adrian: I like Paranoid London.
Alex: It’s wicked. It’s a great album.
Adrian: At your age, you’ve got to just try and stay healthy, focused. The temptation, I think, for someone in your position is to party all the time.
Alex: It is a temptation. One I’m getting better at withstanding.
Adrian: Coming down to earth… But we’ve had a good day today, haven’t we? We’ve been doing some recording today. We’ve been working on a really interesting record. We’re doing a remix.
Alex: For Nightmares on Wax.
Adrian: Another collaboration, like the Panda Bear and Sonic Boom thing. I think doing all these things and having something to look forward to, that’s the key. You’ve got gigs coming up, I’ve got some, and we’re doing a lot together coming up towards the end of the year and into next year. And I think if we just stick to our guns and try to make sure everything we do is powerful, healthy, and disturbing…
Alex: “Disturbing the comfortable, comforting the disturbed” — that’s your sort of motto.
Adrian: Yeah… The work we did on my album, as opposed to all the other ones — I’m just so pleased, because it’s our own stuff as opposed to spicing somebody else’s stuff up. All the things you used on that record, that’s not something you do normally, is it?
Alex: Not really.
Adrian: What were the things that you used?
Alex: On “Body Roll,” it’s a chord organ. So in principle, it’s an electric accordion. The wind blows over reeds. I brought that over from home, but we had to pitch that down a bit because it’s like a quarter turn sharp. It’s in a different tuning. And then flute — I would like to have played it on an alto flute, but I haven’t got one at the moment, so we basically pitched the normal flute down. I think it’s actually lent it a really nice quality.
Adrian: It sounds mystical to me.
Alex: Yeah, when you slow breath noise down, it sounds like a real weird instrument.
Adrian: Was that Matt [Smyth, engineer] ‘s idea?
Alex: No, I think I said that.
Adrian: Genius.
Alex: Well, you’re not the only one to say… [Laughs.] But, yeah, it’s a good trick.
Adrian: I think it worked really well. The best out of you is something where your contribution is writing and giving your best to it. Because a lot of the time, doing the sax — I know your dad was a sideman, wasn’t he?
Alex: Yeah, yeah.
Adrian: He played in Dire Straits. But you’re brilliant. You’ve done great. And being a sideman, it’s all well and good, but everyone wants their own writers. A bit of writers, a bit of production, and eventually your own thing. And I think the way you’re going at the moment, it’s only a matter of time before you find the thing that you love and you’re not around a bunch of assholes.
Alex: Yeah. For the record, it’s mostly Fat White Family that are the assholes. [Laughs.] The Scream boys are nice and lovely. But bless them. I love them all dearly.
Adrian: We do. But anyway, I think it’s a matter of time.
Alex: Was there any method in making the album?
Adrian: Basically, I wanted to create a record where I’m using tuning — which is following on from the last album, where I was using sound effects and tuning to build the beds. So there’s all this really unusual sonic from the groove. And then working on the basslines, humming the basslines to Dougie [Wimbish], and Dougie coming up with some as well. But we created an ambience that was perfect. The track with Brian Eno — it was Brian’s track, but then I took it over and added Dougie, added yourself. I did the piano.
Alex: “The Well Is Poisoned.” Brilliant track.
Adrian: On that one, I just felt they all started fitting together for the vision I had for the new album. And then I wanted to get the jazz flavor with you and that track there. I’d been working on that for a couple of years, and then with Keith LeBlanc passing away — rest in peace, I miss him a lot — I had to have him on it. So that track to me is a special track. It’s got Keith, Dougie, and yourself. Everyone uses the word “jazz,” but jazz now is almost just like real musicianship, as opposed to tracks played live. It’s not programmed. And that for me makes it ultra special.
