Eliana Colachis Glass is a musician and visual artist born in Australia, raised in Seattle, and based in New York. Her debut record, E, is out now on Shelter Press.
Arto Lindsay is a legendary guitarist, singer, composer, and producer based in Brazil; Eliana Glass is a pianist, singer, and visual artist also based in New York. Eliana’s debut record, E, was just released on Shelter Press, so to celebrate, she and Arto got on the phone to catch up about it, and more.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music
Arto Lindsay: I was interested in the way you sequenced the record, because it’s all voice and piano. At the end, you have some instrumental, and then you have some synthesizer, or you put effects on the voice, but most of the record is is very natural sounding, just voice and piano and sometimes drums.
Eliana Glass: It is very piano- and voice-based.
Arto: And it’s you playing piano.
Eliana: Yeah. I think that is how I write music, basically just with the piano and my voice, for better or for worse. Often I can’t really think about the other instruments that will come along after or how to write for them, because I really only have myself in mind — I think because I’m assuming that it’s possibly only gonna be me at the end of the day in a lot of circumstances, so I prepare for that.
Arto: Right.
Eliana: How do you go about it?
Arto: Well, I can’t play a harmony instrument, so I usually write the words first. Or often I sit down with songwriting partners, and I have some words or I have a little snatch of a melody, and then we come up with a few chords and we build together. And at some point, when it became easy to make tracks on a computer, we would often get sidetracked and make a really great track, and then I’d have to go back and retrofit words or melody over something that was already there, which was kind of frustrating and I’ve tried to get away from that the last few years. But, you know, some songs work out that way, others don’t. You make something that you like because it sounds really great or it really grooves or it has a really nice change, and then you have to make it fit. And I have no training, so I kind of cobbled together this style over the years slowly.
Eliana: That’s awesome. When you say you have no training, you mean you have no training in voice or in guitar?
Arto: In music, or anything.
Eliana: Wow.
Arto: I mean, as a kid, I studied piano for six months — and I quit because I wanted to play soccer, which I was not very good at, but I loved. And then for a little while I played bass fiddle in a junior high orchestra, but that didn’t last long either. Then at some point, when I moved to New York and I wanted to do something, I ended up just thinking, OK, well, I’m gonna make up this guitar style. And then I just kind of protected that style. Which is an interesting thing, because when you’re describing the way you write, it’s also kind of like you’re protecting your own space. You know what I mean?
Eliana: Yeah, totally. I can relate to what you’re saying, because I have training myself, but with the piano I don’t really have training. So it’s the instrument I feel the most insecure playing, and I think as a result, I’ve made my own way of playing it. And I guess I am kind of protective over it. I see it as having a lot of limitations, but the limitations are also strengths.
Arto: When I listen to your record, it’s almost like you developed a way of singing and a way of piano playing that are inextricable from each other. It’s like one thing, in a way. And the tempo is really interesting, the way you don’t always necessarily play the time with the piano. Normally a person would play the time with the piano and then they would drag the vocal or whatever. That’s like a time-honored way to sing — which I also enjoy — but it’s not exactly what you do either. And it’s cool.
Eliana: Thank you. That’s so nice. Do you not necessarily want to play strictly in time, or see time as more of an elastic thing? Because I sort of feel that watching your performances and listening to your music, there doesn’t really seem to be a set way.
Arto: Yeah, definitely. Because that’s one thing that I can’t control. Also, when I play alone, I can indicate things without having to play them. I also don’t have to relate to someone else’s bar lines. I don’t even have to step over them. They’re just not there.
Eliana: [Laughs.] Right, yeah.
Arto: But on the other hand, it’s very rhythm-based, what I do. So what is the instrument that you are most comfortable on? What did you train on?
Eliana: I guess voice. The thing about playing and singing at the same time that I really like — which I’m curious to know how you feel when you’re playing guitar and singing — is that I can be distracted by the piano when I’m playing both piano and singing, and I don’t worry about my voice so much. So as a result, I think it sounds the most natural because I’m not in my head as much. If I’m just singing alone and I’m not playing piano, I’m thinking about my voice and the sound in a way that doesn’t really allow for the relaxedness that I might have with the distraction of something else.
Arto: Right. That’s really interesting. I sort of had to teach myself how to sing in tune over an untuned instrument. That’s something that took me a while. Because my guitar is not in any particular tuning — it’s not like some special tuning, it’s just either I don’t mess with it at all, or I tune it so it’s comfortable to bang on. But I realized that you don’t really need a chord structure or even a key to sing in tune, you just need a reference point. So even this cluster, mud puddle of a sound is enough. It’s a reference that I can use.
Eliana: Yeah, right.
Arto: I’ve never liked to play with other untrained people; I like to play with real sophisticated musicians, because it’s challenging and keeps me on my toes. And sometimes I’ll get confused even now as to what the key is, because their intro is kind of abstract and doesn’t really indicate one key or another, and then I have to cross my fingers and dive in.
Eliana: You have to be kind of without fear in those moments.
Arto: Yeah. Do you sometimes play with other musicians?
Eliana: I do, yeah. I feel like that’s something I’m still trying to figure out too. I also like playing with high level musicians, because I feel that works the best with my own capacities. I also like playing a lot with pedal steel — I think that’s the most magic sound. I like playing with my brother [Costa Colachis Glass] a lot. I find that I’m most at home when I’m playing with him, and I don’t have very much fear usually.
Arto: And what what instrument does he play?
Eliana: He plays guitar. And he’s written a lot of lyrics with me. I like writing with other people and making something collaboratively. I feel like so much of your music has that kind of collaborative spirit. I don’t know if it was written in that way, but it feels like it.
Arto: No, it’s definitely true. And that’s partly because I can’t play a lot of things myself. And I want to play with other people because, generally speaking, that’s the music I like best. One of the musicians that I most admire is this guy, the bossa nova singer João Gilberto.
Eliana: And you sound so much like him, too, your voice.
Arto: He is an incredible master technician. You know how they talk about drummers having independence, playing different time signatures or patterns with your hands and your feet? He’s like that with the guitar. The guitar can go one way and the voice can go the other, and they’re very independent, so he sounds like he’s more than one person. But, I mean, even a singer-songwriter is doing both — you’re doing both. What kind of singers do you particularly like?
Eliana: Well, João — I love him so much. That’s one of the most listened to voices I think I’ve had in my life. And then Nina Simone and Elizabeth Fraser. I love the straight tone in Brazilian music so much. I always noticed that there wasn’t as much vibrato in a lot of the Brazilian folk singers, and I loved that. It just kind of comes across more like someone is just talking to you and saying exactly what they feel, rather than embellishing it in any way. I love that feeling. So I’ve sort of gravitated towards a no vibrato, straight tone as a result.
Arto: Also, as João got older, he couldn’t hold the vibrato. It’s interesting, if you compare, older singers usually become more musical. If they pay attention to their singing, they get better and better as singers, even as they lose control.
Eliana: Yeah, and tissue.
Arto: Yeah, so they literally lose control.
Eliana: Your voice to me sounds so timeless, and sort of ageless. Like, the Understatements album that you sent me a year ago or so, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were 20 years old.
Arto: I’m trying to get that record released. What a pain in the ass it’s been.
Eliana: Why, what’s going on?
Arto: Well, I can’t find a label. I did it with the guy that was my manager at that point, and he put most of the money into it, but then I didn’t want to release it the way he did, so we agreed that I would look for somebody. And I’ve been looking and looking and looking. Everybody thinks that they know what I can do or who I am. Or they look at the numbers and I never sold very many records. And I’m not 20 years old. Maybe I should send a picture of Keanu Reeves or something with his shirt off.
Eliana: [Laughs.] I’m so surprised to hear that, because if I had a record label, I’d want to release it. It’s so cool. I love all the songs. They’re beautiful.
Arto: Where did you record your record?
Eliana: It was fragmented and over a long period of time. We recorded it in Nashville, in one of those old studios in Berry Hill. And then we did mixing in Memphis, and we went to our friend Bill Skibbe’s recording studio in Michigan that he outfitted himself since the ‘90s with his wife. They have all this analog gear, and he’s a really great engineer. So that was really fun.
Arto: There’s one song you wrote with your brother that I really like the lyrics to. I can’t remember which one it is.
Eliana: Maybe “On The Way Down.”
Arto: Yeah, it’s kind of talky. It’s really good.
Eliana: Thank you. I love thinking about that song, too, because he really wrote it in about 10 minutes, the lyrics to that. So it just always makes me think, you never know what you could do in 10 minutes. [Laughs.]
I wanted to ask you how you began singing, because you do have such an interesting voice.
Arto: Well, in high school I was in a band, and we did mostly cover songs. Nothing very interesting. I think “Light My Fire” by the Doors. Then during college, I didn’t sing at all, and then when I moved to New York my friends started this band Mars. So I started a band [DNA] and I just started singing. And that early singing was very blues-y and very shouted. And at a certain point, I thought that it would be interesting to combine American and Brazilian music — samba and soul, or something. So I deliberately started to listen to all these singers, and none of them were particularly good singers, they were just kind of classic samba singers like Cartola. And Noel Rosa, who is a really amazing composer, but he’s not much of a singer. I listened to those guys obsessively, along with João Gilberto and Jorge Ben Jor and Caetano Veloso. And also Gal Costa. I used to listen to a lot of Gal Costa — I still do. She’s kind of my favorite.
Eliana: She’s the best. And also such a good person to listen to in terms of the pronunciation, because João slurs his words, and so do so many others.
Arto: Her pronunciation is amazing.
Eliana: I also think English doesn’t really allow for [certain] kinds of rhythmic variations and complexities. And that might be just because I’m not a native speaker or singer at all, so to me, Portuguese always felt so much more rhythmic. But I remember hearing this recording of Caetano and João and Gilberto Gil singing “All of Me” in Portuguese, and it’s so complex and exquisite, and you could never do any of the things that they did in English. It’s just so creative.
Arto: Yeah. Those samba versions of American standards can be incredible. Caetano also sang “Billie Jean.” Do you know that recording?
Eliana: Oh, no, I don’t.
Arto: He does the same kind of thing, where he sings an American song but with a Brazilian rhythm pattern. But, I mean, American singers are pretty satisfying rhythmically, too, in a different way. I tend to listen to a lot of the same singers again and again.
Eliana: Who are those?
Arto: Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Jimmy Scott.
Eliana: Oh, yeah. Amazing voice.
Arto: A lot of Billie Holiday. For years, I just listened to Billie Holiday over and over and over and over again. There was a period in the ‘70s where everybody was obsessed with the ‘30s, because the ‘70s seemed to be such a cultural wasteland. So everybody was really enamored of film noir, films with really great snappy dialogue. It just seemed so intelligent. And Billie Holiday was such a big thing.
Eliana: That’s so cool.
Arto: And in New York, everybody really gravitated to late night TV because that’s when they showed all these old movies. So that had a big influence on all kinds of things that happened.
Eliana: I was curious, do you consider Brazil your home, of all places?
Arto: Yeah, it is my home at this point. I mean, New York was my home for a long time, but now this is my home. It’s not easy going back and forth. My son’s in college, my dad is 98, so I think this year, I have to go back to the States a lot. For a long time, most of my work was in Europe. Right now, a lot of it is in the States. It’s complicated, constantly traveling back and forth. I’m tired of traveling. I love being in different places, but I’m really tired of getting on a plane.
Eliana: Yeah, I understand, totally.
Arto: But I think I’m coming back in June for a while. And if so, I’ll let you know.
Eliana: Yeah, it’d be so fun to get coffee or something! I have one last question: Does your music change as you get older, do you think?
Arto: I think it does. Do you know On Late Style? It’s a book by Edward Said, and the idea is that a lot of people, when you expect them to soften, actually get tougher and more complex in old age. I don’t know how it changes, because it probably changes all the time. But the thing about age is, I don’t know if you necessarily get any wiser when you get older. I mean, there’s a truth to “always learning” and there’s a truth to “never change.” I think both things are true — you change, and you never change. So, in other words, I have no answer. [Laughs.]
Eliana: [Laughs.] Well, I’m looking forward to many eras, changes in my voice. I think that’s all part of the fun.
